Worst neighborhood in San Francisco

hello there, it appears that it is a resounding vote for "Tenderloin" district. I have to agree with everyone, it's very scary in there. I started another forum topic about giving homeless people money, and if it is dangerous. Great advice from everyone as well. Unfortunately though, I think I will be steering well clear of the Ternderloin,

its true the Tenderloin may not be the best neighborhood. but come on for real. its not that bad. i grew up there and people make it seem like the worst when its really not. yea there'a a bunch of homeless but if you really think about it its easy to get used to. i love this hood cuz you know EVERYBODY there.

Hi TxL,

So great to hear from someone who has actually grown up there!!! I'm very curios, what makes you think people hate it so much and steer clear? I've spent a bit of time there myself, and have felt quite uncomfortable as you know. Is it a case of don't judge a book by it's cover? Have we got it wrong?

AJ

Even Hollywood is giving the Tenderloin a bad wrap! Was watching Monsters v Aliens movie and the Tenderloin gets a mention. They say "Go into the city, but avoid the Tenderloin". Amazing reputation this neighborhood has developed.

Yeah, I made the classic tourist mistake of stumbling into the Tenderloin en route to Union Square (the parking by the Bay Bridge is SO much better than downtown!) I've been to some interesting places in NYC and have seen my share of sketchy neighborhoods, but this is one of the few places where I have actively avoided streets in the middle of broad daylight :/

You know what's worse though? Fisherman's Wharf. You might get killed in the Tenderloin, but Fisherman's Wharf will sap your will to live. A drug addicted mugger is nothing compared to hordes of zombie tourists buying blank postcards of "San Franisco at Night!" Now that is scary!

Despite the dangers of the tourist trap that is the Wharf, I would sitll probably have to go with Hunter's Point. I have no personal experience with it but from what I have heard.

Hehehe, well if we are going THAT route, then you might as well say the Bay Bridge is the worst neighborhood by FAR. Nothing sucks your soul quite like sitting in standstill traffic.

Doesn't the 101 go through Hunter's Point? I know it goes near Candlestick Park and thereabouts which is supposedly not so good...but it doesn't seem too terrible driving through. Tenderloin is downright scary, day or night.

I think by Candlestick Park is more around Daly City which is okay in parts but I here has a pretty bad gang problem. I don't know from first hand experience as I really haven't beent there much.

Hunter's Point is mostly that shipyard south of 80--lots of abandoned buildings. They are thnking of converting it into a ritzy business neighborhood but locals have environmental concerns.

So Hunter's Point - dangerous, or just gross and abandoned, so dangerous by association? Are there lots of sketchy people walking around, like the Tenderloin, or is it just ugly and abandoned?

Looks like you're right about the location of Hunter's Point's location. Its the area north east of Candlestick, teh 101 and 280 form its borders. I've never been there.

As to the dangers of the area, almost a third of all homicides occur in the Bayview/Hunters point area. So in 2007 and 08, there are were almost 100 murders in SF for each of those years and each of those years Hunter's Point had about 30 murders, far more than any other areas, even the Tenderloin.

Apparently it also has the largest area of chemical waste in the entire city. All in all, it seems like a real problem area.

Here is a good link for mor info:

http://21stcenturyurbansolutions.wordpress.com/2009/06/21/a-history-of-bayview-hunters-point-part-2-crime-contamination-and-crisis/

Hunters Point is not really the city (I mean technically it is, but not really) and it is dangerous. In terms of walking around at night in the city, Tenderloin probably the scariest and also parts of the Mission if you are not that familiar - some sketchy areas there. West Portal also not that safe or desirable.

The number of murders certainly bare out this point. You get about 10 murders in both the Mission and the Tenderloin respectively, which is, of course, a third of the murders in Hunter's Point, but far worse than say North Beach, where you get only one murder per year.

Yeah, some of the streets in the Mission are not so nice either, but it seems to be block-by-block. Mission itself isn't that great in terms of food/restaurant selection - I actually had a pretty tough time finding a decent coffee shop. Valencia seems to be far better for the food/drink/nightlife department.

Is there a hard-and-fast rule, or is it block by block? I'm still figuring the place out...

The worst part about the city are the places that you think are safe but really aren't. When I used to work in the financial district, all the people around give you a false sense of safety, but if you don't pay attention, let your mind wander, you can suddenly find yourself on a block away from everyone else, and then you suddenly feel like you are on a National Geographic special. You can hear the narrator's voice over in British accent: "The lone calf finds herself suddenly separate from the pack.... Little does she know that laying in wait are..."

The most deceiving place for me is SoMa where you are at museum one moment, or restaurant that costs you an arm and leg, and then, suddenly you're in Afghanstan (a total warzone, that is).

Yeah, SoMa can be like that...it's pretty block-by-block, although it does have some cool spots. You are right,the best thing to do is keep your wits about you if you are not sure of an area. How does Berkeley chalk up, safety-wise, by comparison?

Realistically, though, there are far worse places to be.

Ok, the TL is dangerous, and Hunter's Point has projects in it and a lot of low income housing. But what do we mean by worst? SOMA is kind of weird and industrial and dangerous, but for all that is has a certain charm and some unique amazing spots.

The Marina is by far the most annoying neighborhood in the city - no one I know will even go there because its so full of entitled white people. And what kind of places are there to visit in the Marina? Noah's Bagels? Crate & Barrel? No thanks. North Beach is almost as bad because of the aforementioned entitled douchebags who come down from the Marina on Friday night and get in fights and get shot occasionally, but it has redeeming qualities during the day.

The Upper Haight also sucks.

@soulpony - wow! Angry party for 1? LOL. That might be the funniest description I have ever seen about the Marina. I am seriously laughing out loud.

SOMA is sketchy in certain areas, especially along 6th street. But there are other parts along 4th and 5th near the Metreon and Westfield Mall that aren't as bad - especially during the day.

Marina - it has evolved since you've last been. There's no Crate & Barrel but there is a Willams-Sonoma and a Pottery Barn. I find that the more North you go in the Marina, the less pretentious it is. Like near the Presidio Theater and Judy's Cafe.

North Beach - well, I like it there, always have. You need to know where to go so that you don't run into the "douchebags" from the Marina.

I SO look forward to reading more of your posts! You crack me up.

Hmm, interesting take on it. "Worst" really is a relative term; "crime-laden" or "most unsafe" may be more relevant to our conversation. As I said earlier, any soul-sucking, traffic-blocked road is worse to me in my book than a place where I have to watch my back a little bit.

Ok, so I work in North Beach and I went to college here a few years back, and its good enough. But it is interesting walking to work every morning like a salmon upstream up the hill from the financial district. Every morning I cross paths with the same pasty folks riding by on the 41 or walking to the financial district from the Marina and i think about how fortunate I am to not be them.

But, its somehow better than riding the dirty 30 up Stockton, where old folks shove on to the bus at 6am to ride it two blocks to buy some roots. Note: MUNI does not allow live chickens on the bus, I actually witnessed a confrontation over this - only resolved when the waylaid passenger broke the neck of the chicken. The driver was casually satisfied to have only a dead chicken on the bus and we carried on.

I won't defend the TL, after living in the TL I decided to become an East Bay convert. And the only place I ever was mugged was in the Mission off 17th and Capp. That's ugly little place i used to call home. I noted the disparaging comments about these dangerous and dirty venues. I just thought we needed a little balance here. Ungentrified, to me, does not equate to worse. I'd rather get my clothes mended and chat a while at the Tenderloin National Forest (look it up) than get some new salt shakers at Sur la Table - yeah that's right, the ferry building is another one of San Francisco's Worst Neighborhoods if you can count the Bridge.

And the Upper Haight also sucks.

I hear you Soulpony. I was by no means saying that SoMa is the worst neighborhood. All I was saying is that, as a woman, I sometimes feel unsafe in certain areas after a certain hour. When the streets empty out, generally I feel unsafe and I feel unsafe when I only see homeless people who are ranting. (I don't blame them for it--my mom has told me about what Reagan did to the mental health system in this state--I get how institutions have failed us.)

SoMa, for example, has some of my favorite places as well (the museums etc.). And I fully get that with gentification more and more areas of the city have become unaffordable. Heck, I can't afford to live there. I'm generally an East Bay gal--Berkeley's where I feel most at home, and I actually find places that are overly "white"--that lack diversity-- just as uncomfortable as ones that feel impoverished.

Excellence through diversity! It wasn't just a motto, I bought into it at Cal.

@Soulpony, where did you go? I like the balance you bring to the group...

Gotta agree with @Flowergirl that being female certainly adds a degree of uncertainty when walking around some neighborhoods, particularly at night. I don't want to get on an entitled gender platform, but I will say that I'll take dirty, gentrified, rude or even congested over genuinely unsafe.

@SoulPony, I don't really care for the Upper Haight either, although I wouldn't consider it dangerous or anything. But how can you say that about the Ferry Building. It's mostly tourists most of the time but that's what I love about it. To live in a city where people want to visit, make it great.
@StephSF - ditto - also agree with @Flowergirl about being female at night and feeling unsafe.

Okay - here's one that has sort of been tapped into but not fully explored. That area right by Candlestick Park off of 101 is one of the worst for traffic I have ever seen. I was en route to the airport and was already late, and decided to use this area (mistakenly) to turn around in. I was in a "no left turn" zone and ended up taking a side street to make a U-turn. This would have worked great except that I sat at a red light for (literally) six or seven minutes. You know how sometimes you wonder if a light is broken? There was no wondering if this light was broken - I could tell that it absolutely was. Eventually it turned and I made it back to SFO a minute before my flight was boarding (made it in a pinch!), but it was unbelievably stressful and one of my worst SF experiences. Not recommended.

I grew up in SF, but have lived in Chicago for 25 years, so saying what is the "worst" neighborhood in SF is relative.
Chicago is scarier. The worst neighborhood, not in terms of crime, but in the lack of amenities, cultural, social, bars, restaurants, etc. is Visatation Valley. The area is so forgotten that it's about the only part of SF that Google hasn't street mapped. Stuck between the northern border of Daly City and to the east by Hunter's Point and 101, it's virtually a forgotten piece of land.
I've never had a problem with the Tenderloin. OK, it's gamey. Just leave the people you see there alone and they won't bother you. Just because some dude is talking to himself doesn't mean you have to talk back. In fact, best not too. Some of the Tenderloin is filled with people who are a part of what is called "Greyhound therapy."
Other towns have put their mentally ill and malcontents on a bus and shipped them off where they won't be an eyesore and cause trouble. Having said that, some of the more interesting nights I've spent in SF have been in some of the plethora of bars in the Loin- the Brown Jug, Ha Ra's, the High Tide, etc.

Hey Bradgalt--I think you are definitely right about Tenderloin having some great dive bars--I went to the Outsider once and really liked it--very authentic; not like some of these places that call themselves dive bars but actually are just poser bars.

Also, I've been here for twenty years and Visitation Valley barely rings a bell. If you hadn't told me where it was, I would never have known.

I currently live in the tenderloin, on ellis between larkin and polk, and i feel totally safe in my neighborhood. now that being said, i always take larkin from the civic center bart-never ever take hyde, and most of the time when i am walking at night, i am walking with my dog (who is a REAL dog, not a pocket dog) so that always helps me feel safer. I have always felt safer in my hood than in the mission. mostly the tenderloin is just drug addicts and pros. which i will pick any day over gangs and violent crime. most of the druggies and pros know me and my dog from my walks, and most of them just ignore me, but plenty of them also say hey or at least nod and smile. It should also be pointed out that i am a 26 year old white girl, so maybe i shouldnt feel safe, but i totally do. the thug guys who hang out at the corner store by my house have always been really friendly as well, and maybe i am just being naive, but i really do think if i was walking and someone was following me or trying to give me trouble, i could head in that direction and the corner store guys would sort it out for me (they also love my dog)

anyhow, those are just my thoughts.... oh, and living a few blocks from polk streets main bars definitely make my neighborhood more attractive to me (i love that the tourists dont go there because they have been warned, and as a result the bars dont hike up the prices as much)

Its probably a toss up between the Mission and the Tenderloin, but I do definitely think you're playing the odds Lizell. It only takes a couple of minutes to get robbed or worse and the thing with drug addicts is they don't always reason very clearly--in my experience anyway.

I would actually say that most of SF is fairly dangerous. I've had friends who've been mugged and had close calls in lots of spots. You should definitely stay aware. At some point your luck might run out. And once something bad happens its hard to feel that sense of security again.

If you want to give yourself a scare get some of the people at your local watering hole talking about close calls they've had, and you'll probably get enough stories to keep you up at night.

Then again, living out here in Carmel I've probably gotten a bit soft. If you were my daughter living out there, I would be worried, though.

@dirtyharry- i guess i just choose to not live my life in fear. i mean, really, there are risks almost anywhere. in my hometown, Gainesville, fl, there were a string of muggings and rapes in one of the richest safest neighborhood in town-terrible things can really happen anywhere. i carry pepper spray, and like i said, i am never walking at night alone (always with friends or with my dog-a pit bull mix.) I only walk on well-lit streets and i do every bit of preventative work that i can when it comes to my safety. But at the end of the day, i am just an admin who works in the financial district and i work non-stop to be able to live in the city. I love san francisco and always have. Sure i could move to some safe suburban town somewhere, but i guess i feel like the happiness that i get from living in what is my opinion, the most beautiful city in America, outweighs the risks. maybe i will be proven wrong someday, and i hope that i am not. but i also hope that i would continue to not live my life in fear forever then too. thanks for the concern though! its actually pretty sweet. :)

Is it safe around union square ar night, two old ladys traveling to see the city.

@lizell--I totally second you on that. It is a little bit dangerous but life is an adventure. Especially while you're still young it is definitely worth it to have experiences and take a few chances. Otherwise what is the point?

I've had a couple of close calls in North Beach, but nothing too bad. And I wouldn't trade my time there for the world. Everybody needs at least a couple of years of living in the most beautiful city in the world.

As a regular visitor to San Francisco, Union Square is fine and there are major hotels surrounding the square so at night you are ok (as fine as you would be in any other major city after midnight). However, be careful not to go deep into the Tenderloin neighbourhood, it can be very scary at night, see this page for more information http://www.streetadvisor.com/tenderloin-san-francisco-san-francisco-county-california

And if in doubt ask your hotel about where to go.

Thanks foe the tips, is there an other area that you think would be a better fit to stay in for two middle girls from the country?

The Tenderloin/Mid-Market is definitely seedy, but there's also a lot to do around there. As a young woman whose boyfriend lives right on Leavenworth and McAllister, right by the Civic Center BART and UN Plaza, I get my fair share of crackheads, meth heads, transients, homeless and/or mentally ill people on a daily basis, so I'm careful to only walk on certain streets, almost always with another person in a well-lit area. However, the neighborhood is really up and coming, especially since Twitter moved in on 7th and Market, and there has been a lot of gentrification as of late, especially South of Market (which is technically another neighborhood but directly adjacent to the TL). There are a lot of fun, relatively upscale places to go out in the TL, such as Monarch, Noble, Mr. Smith's, The Showdown, Bourbon & Branch, and Tradition, and there's a farmer's market three days out of the week in UN Plaza. Bayview/Hunter's Point can also be pretty sketchy (it's where most of the gang violence in SF goes down), but Third Street has quite a few shops and the area, like the TL, is rapidly gentrifying, especially with the abundance of new, upscale condominiums around Candlestick Point that are being built to maximize the beautiful views of the bay. There's a great jazz supper club called Old Skool Cafe that serves soul food, and Kelly's Mission Rock nightclub is right on the water and has dancing and food. The Bayview has some of the best weather in the city, so Kelly's Mission Rock is a great place to have a drink outdoors when it's warm out.

thanks khom, as in Chamber of "khom-merce" - ugh.

So much fear! "Things that scare white people"....damn..... These people all NEED to go to the Tenderloin and the Bayview to shed a little entitlement and get some flava.

The SCARIEST neighborhood is your OWN being taken over and overrun with thousands of 20-something uber rich tech kids ,faces glued to their cellphones, as they "meet up" at the latest overpriced restaurant while all your 60-something Artist,musician, filmmaker ,poet friends (who made the city cool to begin with) are being Ellis Acted out of their apartments they've lived in for 30+ years forcing them to Sacremento, Santa Rosa and Oakland .THAT'S f***ing scary dude...................

RIGHT ON SHROUDWOMAN!!!

don't listen to anything StephSF has said, she obviously know's nothing about anything that she talked about.

Having lived in SF for many years myself, Here is a list of the seedier neighborhoods or districts in SF from MY perspective, which is all I can vouch for: First-Off, just wanted to comment on one post I read out of all these that I completely disagree with..Whoever said West Portal is Unsafe, might as well just live in a bubble for the rest of their lives, because the only even resemblance of unsavory characters I have witnessed there, are either most likely younger HS/various-aged students wrongfully-judged by their appearance, or if they are really down and out, then usually simply in transit, and never really posted there for too long, unless MUNI is delayed. It has a nice row of shops and is a pretty busy/major transit station as a lot the different lines stem-off in separate directions from there. Not to mention it is pretty much in the middle of SFSU & CCSF, as well as surrounded by some gorgeous houses.

Back to the Main Point, MY personal list of the seedier areas in SF: (All in MY Top 5)

Tenderloin -
The only reason I Ever mention this first regarding this subject is due to the amount of posts on this site, ONLY talking about the Tenderloin..Ok Yes, SF has it's fair share of homeless, it does not mean they're all necessarily shady people though, if you ever have the chance and the balls, find a homeless-person who doesn't look like they're imagining you as a giant crack-rock, and talk to them for a minute, just maybe they'll tell you their story, and you might actually learn something. I personally have never actually lived in the Tenderloin, but I have had many friends who have lived there that I visited frequently, not to mention, I have personally had Many jobs located in the heart of the Tenderloin, and pretty much spent 8-10hrs, 6 Days a week, literally standing on the sidewalk in the heart of the tenderloin, I've had a job literally 20 feet up the sidewalk from Glide Church, I have seen & talked to the same homeless people in that area for years, and they are not all that bad, if you can get over the body-odor of some of them. I can completely understand how a tourist might feel walking through that area at night, from working in the hospitality-business for as long as I had in that specific area, but as many people before me have eluded to in their posts..If you act or look like you are vulnerable, then your chances are much greater of getting messed with, in my opinion.

Filmore -
It really is as they say, the atmosphere can Completely Flip from one block to the next. Yes, I really do believe the Filmore is not the safest place, especially for tourism, and especially at night time on certain streets..but then you have this large apartment building erected, literally in the heart of the Filmore, populated by a majority of Caucasian, Art-School Students, but the buildings are well secured in that sense. It's just kind of funny how diverse, yet all blendered together this city can be at times. Having a (Non-AI) friend who managed to rent a room in that building, I got to have my fair share of experiences in the Filmore, definitely has some nice places to check-out, and some blocks to avoid.

Bayview/Hunter's Point -
Hey if the stats say 30% of all murders in SF take place here, according to a prior-post, then what can ya do. It is what it is, it's not a horrible place, as I have frequented Deep-East of Third Street many times myself, there's not much of a reason to really visit further south on 3rd, and especially further East, closer to the Bay, without any sort of purpose. I will say though, that Upper 3rd st. by Giants' Stadium has sprung up some really nice condominiums semi-recently, as mentioned in earlier posts. & if you can find them, there are some really good and diverse places to eat around there, as well as drink & nightlife.

Lakeview/Ingleside -
Now more popularly known as Ingleside, is a neighborhood that starts near SFSU and extends somewhat on the way toward Balboa Park Station without crossing over into Daly City. Yes, the nearby areas of SFSU are pretty nice, mainly populated by either students or quiet families, being SF with the ability to literally feel like a completely different city from one block to the next, if you end up in the wrong part of Ingleside, or as what they used to call Lakeview, it is probably best not to get out of your car or public transit without a purpose. I personally lived in the thick of Lakeview for a few years and made some good friends, but I know how people there perceive and protect their certain blocks over there, I myself lived at the end of a culdesac, but not quite what you'd imagine when you think culdesac in general-suburbia, this was more of a "You better be making a quick U-Turn, Or if you're creepin' slowly and you're not a narc (Undercover Cop), then there is definitely a high-possibility for $h!t to go down." My neighbor across the street from my house, there house (there G-ma's house) being literally 10-feet from mine, was walking down the main street "The Dolph" (Randolph) one night, and got shot at for no reason at all, him and his cousin didn't even know who the shooters were..my neighbor made it away clean, but his cousin wasn't so lucky, and that's just one small, recent incident. There wasn't a few times out of each month that I didn't hear gunshots from my room. Yes to the random tourist, this may sound scary, but to be honest, I loved my time there, as you get to know everybody around you, and the longer you're there, the deeper your bonds become, as "lizell" touched upon earlier, I knew for a fact that if I was ever in any need, my neighbors had my back, as I had theirs when they were in need of assistance. I had started to notice a little more toward the end of my stay there, that there were more State-Students braving the neighborhood's rep, or simply just didn't know any better, basing their residence-choice simply off the deal they found in rent in order for them to move-in to this area. As the location, all threats-aside, is extremely convenient for a student attending SF State who does not want to live in the "Villas" or directly on-campus. & if you don't believe me, look it up, even Andre Nicky talks about dumping bodies in Lake Merced, and if you've ever heard of Cougnut, used to live in Lakeview as well. On a side note, Mac Dre, I believe was more of a Bayview local.

In conclusion, I have moved more times during the period of my life I spent in SF, then I have in any other city during my entire life, and I have worked more various jobs in SF, then I have elsewhere as well. I love this city, and really miss it, but after taking an extended-stay in the only part of SF where individuality does not exist, especially in terms of apparel, I had to take a little break, mainly because of a Job Opportunity, which to this day is still the most fiscally-beneficial decision for myself, but I do still visit often, as I have a lot of friends/contacts who still reside there, and as much bs as I have experienced there, I wouldn't trade those experiences for the world..any of them, Positive AND the Negative.

So, if you ever decide to visit or live there, stay out of trouble, feel free to check-out wherever you like, just at least pretend like you know where you're going if you don't start to feel the safest..and please don't turn into a hipster.

Hope any of this helped..

I was born and raised in SF in the "notorious" neighborhood of Bayview-Hunter's Point. In terms of crime, violence, and gang activity, I'd say Bayview and Visitation Valley used to be pretty bad, but now due to all these rich tech scums moving into the city, a lot of the poor folks have had to leave due to the increased cost of living in SF. Yeah, the decrease in crime is great, but instead of pushing out the natives, the city should be helping them cure their problems instead of forcing them out. Soapy of the above posts annoy the f*cl out of me. So many spoiled brats have moved into this once culturally-thriving city. All these newcomers say they "love" the Frisco culture, yet they are the obese terrorizing and destroying the culture. I wish they would all just GTFO and it could be home sweet home again, but that ain't about to happen now. F*ck all you techie bastards.

Hmm, I have to say that I think San Francisco is a relatively safe city. I have friends who grew up in rough Chicago neighborhoods and rough Oakland neighborhoods, who say that even the roughest neighborhoods in SF don't really compare to the rough neighborhoods in Chicago or Oakland. It's good to remember that everything is relative. I don't know much about the Tenderloin having not spent much time there myself. The few times that I have been there have been completely uneventful and nothing bad happened. However, I can speak for Bayview since my husband and I own a house there. Bayview is actually pretty safe...I am white girl who takes public transport around Bayview everyday and has done so for years and has never had any problems. I also do a lot of walking around the Bayview and have never felt unsafe. This is not to say that you should walk around obliviously talking on your iPhone with your iPad sticking out of your purse, etc. Be smart, stay aware of your surroundings, and you should be fine in Bayview. It is an up and coming neighborhood that is slowly getting safer... and it will take time for Bayview's image to change in the eyes of the rest of the city. But seriously, crime happens everywhere in SF...touristy areas are actually where criminals go to target the unsuspecting sightseers, so remain alert wherever you chose to spend your time in our city. And don't let fear stop you from coming down to check out where the locals really live, in places like Bayview...you will get a totally authentic experience eating Auntie Aprils soul food, grabbing a coffee from Trouble Coffee, and checking out the old Bayview Opera House... which is, in my opinion, way better than walking around boring Fisherman's Wharf.

I lived in San Francisco for 30 years, here's my two cents: In daylight, there are no especially dangerous areas just driving around except for the freeways for obvious reasons. If you are a tourist, why would you ever be in the Tenderloin? or the Western Addition for that matter. Buying drugs? You're better off not doing that. The Richmond District and Sunset are middle class residential areas with decent restaurants but virtually no night life. If you must go to Fishermans Wharf, take a jacket and at least try to check out the view.
At night, don't go wandering around the City alone. There is definitely a lot of danger in any big city for the lone walker who doesn't know his or her way around. Take a taxi to and from your hotel.
Enjoy the restaurants, the great views, and dress warmly. Good luck!

@friscoboy: I can imagine that you are frustrated by the situation. But why are you blaming the techies while you should blame the city/government. If the poor people had a chance to get a proper education or job they would probably do the same. I am also a techie (from the netherlands, I don't live in the US) but does that mean I am a bastard. I am on vacation at the moment in SF and I noticed a lot of poverty on the streets and you are right about the fact that the city should help te poor people out. Nobody is a winner in this situation, because this image gives the city a bad reputation. I was here twenty years ago and I can't remember that it was this bad. But everywhere in the world young educated people like to move to a nice city that's dynamic. That doesn't count for me because I like to live in a quiet suburb because I am already 40 but when I was young I also like to live in the city.

One real Earthquake is all it takes to "cleanse the town". It works every time. These new people have no idea where they are and what lies beneath this ground.All these new high rise condos will stand empty like the ghost high rises in China . But this time its too late. The town is gutted beyond repair and all the magic has left for Oakland, Portland , the Desert and the Delta. Im planning the Great Funeral of San Francisco. It was once a really great town......

@shroudwoman: Could you tell me more about this development in the past years? Because in every large city is is quite normal that students, young people and also young rich people like to move to the city. And every city has it changes during the years. So why is it so different in San Francisco? Personally I like cities with a lot of diversities and different cultures. But when I am on vacation with my ten year old daughter I don't like to walk on streets that smell like urine and full of people that are shouting aggressively. (this was on Market street). On Powell street/Union square I felt more comfortable but here you have the typical overpriced stores you can find in every city in the world.I went to Manhattan a lot of times and there is also a lot of cultural diversity, but there I don't feel uncomfortable.

San Francisco isn't really a "city" its a small town - only 7 miles (11.265 km) square. Diversity , religious and personal freedom are what San Francisco was built on. In the turn of the century YOGA, Buddhism, Spiritualism, then Beatniks, thousands of hippies and gays came and infused the culture with enormous creativity. In the late 70's the very popular Mayor & 1st gay Supervisor were assasinated and the whole town mourned together, and then right afterwards the AIDS plague wiped out an entire generation of world class brilliant designers, artists, painters,dancers, choreographers musicians, playwrights, and the city continued mourning. Then a 7.1 Earthquake struck us hard and the people sat on corners and comforters our neighbors together. The SF 49ers won the SUPERBOWL shortly afterwards and we all came together in great Joy & went crazy in the streets. Then the DOT COM arrived and partially gutted the infrastructure - Glass shops, Photography studios, Pleating & Quilting factories, sewing factories, etc. but it bombed very shortly afterwards and all those first "techies" we called "yuppies" left the town partially gutted. The town went back to its artsy fartsy 49, GIANTS lovin self . Worn out but in tact .

THIS IS DIFFERENT- partially because San Francisco - the town of Fruits & Nuts -represented the 20th Century very well. We are now in the 21st Century and once again in the Vanguard as the Tech Action Central Boom. Its such a different mentality going from the Industrial Revolution to the Technological age. All the other people who came here- the Chinese, Gold miners, Madams, Railroad Tycoons they all learned how to live together. These new "techies" do not integrate and to the local they seem like robots. They have NO RESPECT for who is already here and who have gone through all that history i just recounted for you. To them its Disneyland . They paint everything they own dark charcoal gray, they destroy beloved architectural elements of the gorgeous 20th Century buildings such as hand painted Spanish tiles, tile roofs, murals, gingerbread on Victorians with complete abandon & no respect. The GREED is out of control and the outside developers preying on their numbers have filled every old gas station lot and vacant lot with Condominiums charging $500 & up a month for rent of one bedroom apartments. Hundreds of local artists, dancers, musicians, painters and senior citizens are being thrown out of their buildings . THIS COULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IF WERB CAEN WAS STILL WRITING HIS COLUMN in the SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE ! MAYOR LEE WOULD HAVE BEEN RUN OUT OF TOWN! But part of the "Disruption" of TECH is no local newpapers, no local voice (i suppose blogs like this are all that is left.)

Privacy, Artistry, Magic, REAL physical Community (not online) and a sense of PLACE are what people are so upset about . I hope this helps you to understand. This is the Death of a Great American city not unlike what KATRINA did to our Sister City - NEW ORLEANS.
Both bastions of free thought , free spirits & excessive appetites. Au revoir Mon Amor de La Ville!

(That was suppose to read $5000.00 and up for a one bedroom condo)

Thanks very much for the information ! It was very useful. After reading your story I can totally understand the anger and frustration. In some cities in the Netherlands, like Rotterdam they also tried to "upscale" some parts with expensive condos, but that didn't work because you can't change a neighborhood with cultural diversity into a yuppie hood. My experience in the US until now and what I heard from friends that worked here is that a lot of the very rich people over here are arrogant in general. Especially the kids of the very wealthy that never had to work for their money. But everything in the US is more extreme than in Europe I guess. As being a techie myself, I also agree on the fact that the world needs more physical contact instead of online contact. Sometimes my face is also glued to my cellphone as you mentioned earlier ;-) but I was born in the seventies so gladly I also know the other side of the coin and my purpose in to go back to the old times because I miss that as well. That's why my purpose within the IT world to create physical contact again instead of sitting behind a computer like a zombie.

Thanks again for your story and I hope when I come back to SF in the future I can sing the song again: "If your going to San Francisco, be sure to wear a flower in your hair"

i'm afraid THAT San Francisco died in 1969. It is very nice to talk to you. The family structure for white America broke down here in the 70's . In Europe (i go every year) the family structure still seems intact , children are allowed to remain children . Corporate culture here is psychotic and objectifys everyone and turns them into commodities.
Anyway it was a completely gorgeous day today and i remain in Love with San Francisco and always meet great people and see new things.... Thank you!

At my age I go whereever I want in The City. They just take me as just another one of the street people..
I have to careful that some tourist does't drop a quarter in my latte grande.

@DemisB: It's nice that you like "diversities" but there is also such a thing as "class diversity" and if you can't handle seeing poor people you might want to think about this concept a little more...

I do not mind seeing poor people and I never mentioned that in my previous comments. I just don't like to walk trough neighbourhoods that are aggressive and smell like urine with a ten year old girl during my holiday, but I think nobody would like that. And nobody deserves to live in a place like that. But I noticed that the differences between the rich and poor in San Francisco are more extreme than f.e. New York and there was a lot of frustration in this city. This city really shows that the US is in fact a underdeveloped country.

@DemisB I hear you, this shouldn't be happening in one of the richest cities in one of the richest countries in the world. But yes, it just shows you how intense the war on the poor is in this country which could be seen as underdeveloped (somewhat of an understatement if you ask me!). Most of our resources go to war and prisons and not housing or education (and nominally healthcare) so this is the result.

Thanks.

Unless a person leaves this country and goes to another such as Norway, Morrocco, Singapore, Portugal, Iceland, Canada, etc. its hard to grasp how in decline the US is. Re entering the US from another country you see that we are an Empire in deep decline due to the breakdown of the family structure and the lack of financial support to the people due to lack of separation of corporation and state. It is appalling what we have allowed to happen here because we are too busy working or shopping. Now unless the people get it together for a general strike type revolution its too late and we will continue to fall into greater and greater decline. This is indeed now one of the most abundant cities with the most job growth, income per capita in the US and all it would take is one major Earthquake and SF is a pile of rocks.

Let the Native speak. Four generations strong in this city, and while it vacilates from generation to generation the answer to this question is simple. The Kill Zone is Griffith and Fitzgerald. It is called the Alice Griffith Housing project. The neiborhood is known as Double Rock (not the island), and is without question the most dangerous neighborhood in San Francisco. As many as 1 in 3 murders in this city occur within a 1 mile area of this neighborhood. Nuff said.

Furthermore, the TL is fine. Lots of seedy sights, drugs, prostitution and yes there is poverty and yes there is violence but it is relatively safe. It also happens to lean on Union Square so it is most visible to tourists but trust and believe that it is nowhere near the worst neighborhood in this beautiful city.

Areas I hate and try to avoid: Tenderloin, Civic Center, Western Addition, Outer Mission, Mission District, Visitacion Valley, Bayview, Hunters Point, Ingleside Heights, Oceanview, Portola, Crocker-Amazon. In no particular order.

I remember Frisco back in the 70s & 80s and miss what it was in those times. A major transition in the sillycon valley era, less interest being there much these days but still visit occasionally.

As a 4th generation SFer, COOL SF, is spot on the least desirable neighborhoods! Whenever I hear real estate peeps talking about "up and coming" neighborhoods, I could puke. My grandparents talked about the Mission Dist, Fillmore, Bayview, Hunters Point, Visitation Valley, Tenderloin, Ocean View, Crocker Amazon, Geneva Ave, as places to avoid and it's the same now . Yeah, you can call it tons of cultural diversity......but that doesn't cut it. It's insulting to the term. I grew up in the Richmond District, and as boring as it was ( like the Sunset) at least you felt relatively safe. If the Real Estate "wanna make a buck" peeps want to think Visitation Valley will become the new Dot.com area, be certain to walk your clients through the Sunnydale Projects and down Geneva Ave. That's the reality, and it ain't going away.

The Marina is the worst neighborhood in SF. Horrible people. I'd much rather hang out in the Tenderloin!

White people think the TL (Tenderloin) is worst because it's the only shitty neighborhood they've actually had reason to spend any time in. It's dirty as hell, but not that dangerous. Granted, it's got the highest violent crime rate in the city and there's a few blocks that are a no-man's land, but for the most part, the criminal element of the TL pretty much keeps to itself. If you're not south of Eddy and looking for a fix, then you're fine. There's far scarier places in San Francisco. Most of the southern end of San Francisco is a danger zone. And the Mission, which, for the most part, is safe enough if you're minding your own business and on the precipice of gentrification, still has a ton of gang action going down and unlike the TL, they don't always keep it to themselves there. And, like DoctorH said, though not dangerous, the douche-bag filled Marina is a horrible, horrible neighborhood.

As artists ,filmakers & musicians we moved into neighborhoods like the Mission & Hayes Valley (which used to be REALLY dangerous in the 70's and 80's) but we moved there with LOVE & respect for the people - not fear and zenophobia. . We lived among the people and had to pass their particular rites of passage to be able to live there among them in peace. We were humble and respected our neighbors -THAT is the Spirit of San Francisco-city of St. Francis.
These arrogant East Coast/Midwest techie children act like Androids (or like the uptight racist straight people in the 70's who disowned their children , who had no creativity and absolutely NO style) .They look down (if they look at all) on anything around them as offending their sensibilities (not seeing how much their attitudes are offending local San Franciscans (except for the hideous unelected whore Mayor Lee.) It is a testament to the dignity of the neighborhood that the 22nd St. Gang and the Nortenos didn't start going "medieval " on their uptight clueless little asses 7 years ago when they started going south of Van Ness on 24th St. (but i guess maybe they were too busy having to find new housing in So. city & Oakland for all of their evicted families and helping their Abuletas move ...)

@Shroudwoman: Wow, that is one of the most bitter posts I've encountered in quite a long time, but it's alright to take swipes at Anglo-Saxons because everybody knows they are the descendents of Dead White Men, men who never did anything good for this world. Really, the arrogant people are, typically, the born-and-bred San Franciscans, a people who, stereotypically, are renowned for having little or no class, being prone to violence, and having a hate-on for Whitey.

Seriously, this city is edgier than many areas of the Bronx, Roxbury, South Philly, or even the South Side of Chicago. If somebody were to ask me about the no-go zones in San Fran, I'd have to claim that most of this self-loving, meth-addicted city is dangerous with The Tenderloin and Bayview-Hunter's Point being the worst areas.

I'm orginally from SF, but live in Chicago. I go back to town at least twice a year. What you said is foolish, just to get in a cheap shot. Ok, I get it. Bayview and the the Tenderloin are nothing compared to parts of Chicago's south side. I've driven around the southeast corner of SF and have walked the Tenderloin many times over the years, in the day AND night, yet there are parts of Chicago that you just don't go into if you have a white pelt. Having said that, Chicago is a great town, its just not as great as SF, imo.

Brad: I did not say anything; I typed a short paragraph in which I offered my opinion. And I continue to think that this city's no-go zones for Whites are even edgier than the South Side of Chicago. Of course, I could be mistaken, and I was not, as you alleged, trying to get in a cheap shot. Stop being queenish towards me. It's not nice, Signor.

Like everyone, you are entitled to your opinion, even if it's skewed. "Queenish"? WTF does that mean? I just really get tired of all these wimps who complain how bad the Loin is. It's only bad for those that are forced through circumstances who have to live there. As for the Bayview, other than those that live there, who the hell wants to go to the Bayview? Now that the Niners and Giants are no longer at Candlestick, there even isn't a reason to drive around there.

Preach it Shroudwoman!!!

I don't mean to sound "bitter " or "preachy" . In reality im heartbroken because i've been having a love affair with San Francisco since I first came here in 1956 as a child when my mother told me we had to wear hats and gloves (because ladies always dressed in San Francisco.) I ran away from home to live here the minute and the day I turned 18 in 1966. This city has continued to fascinate me and mystify me for all these years until the 21st Century began to kick in. Now day by day , store by store, friend by friend forced out, as the collective magic and surrealist quality of everyday life here is evaporating into a bland charcoal grey linear moonscape of linear , boring , non-poetic styleless and uninteresting people obsessed (no that is too passionate a word) who are focused on iPhones, "disruption", code, "scalability", platforms,"monetizing", beer and pork.
They are not particularly nice or interesting, rarely smile at anyone not like themselves, rather arrogant who have driven the economy and global development to obscene heights so that those who created profound atmospheric worlds inside of stores & cafes, the collective consciousness of engagement, respect and acceptance that SF people had for one another. Because we had been through the riots in the Fillmore after the King assassination, the 150,000 teenage runaways descending on the russian neighborhood Haight,Ashbury all stoned daily on LSD, those 2 amazing years (1966,1967) of LOVE & PEACE WITHOUT ANY CAPITALISM in operation- a GIVING economy , a community economy, before the hard drugs came in. The loss of the Fillmore District and gentrification with the Geary thruway, Valencia St.the Lesbian haven in the 70's, the AIDS plague, The Castro and all the magic that was, the assassination of our Mayor Moscone & supervisor Milk , the Jim Jones debacle, the crack epidemic (when a woman tried to sell me her baby on 16th St. for a $20.00) the loss of Herb Caen-the town crier, the lost of our local ROCK and foundation- the daily SF Chronicle, all the wins of the world series, the super bowls, the 89" quake, the Dot-Com & the Dot-Bomb. We had been through alot together. But this is different . It feels like a city being dismantled from the ground up, many of us like myself in a silent daily heartbroken trauma as more of our friends get evicted (in their 60's) and the magical stores , cafes and bars forced to leave .
Change is inevitable of course . I feel extremely fortunate to have gotten to experience the only romantic place in the USA (besides New Orleans) that romantic freaks like myself could create ,breathe and be happy able to be ourselves.
At this rate In another year or two all that was left of that romance of this "painted lady", this little town named for St. Francis will have evaporated and be gone and those remaining will see that they killed what they kind of liked about it , it will be OVER and they will discover they do not have the Wisdom or the Heart or the creativity to create anything close to that kind of rich breathtaking magical atmosphere for themselves in this town. It was a collective dream,and rudely woken you feel it still so strongly but realize you can't remember it in the morning......because its gone.

@Brad: I'm no wimp, and I was badly injured last Autumn when a huge Person-of-Colour ruined my right arm and broke some of my fingers in a strong-arm robbery attempt. Black on-lookers laughed and mocked me whilst cheering on the thug. The Tenderloin has an international reputation for being the centre of meth and crack and stolen prescription drugs dealing in this city. Would you like to call me a wimp to my face?

Oh, Brad, I live in the Tenderloin.

@Brad: The attack on me took place at the corner of Larkin and Geary -the same place where another White Anglo was very badly injured by another Black thug (the attacker is up on Attempt to Murder charges).

In my case, other Blacks laughed and mocked me and called me White Motherfucker and Pussy Ass White Bitch for resisting the male Black who jumped me to steal my phone and money.

The neighbourhood I call home has had a horrible rep since at least the beginning of last century. The people who seem to defend it are sometimes the worst individuals one could not hope to ever meet: The Crips; The AZN Boyz gang; other Southeast Asian gangsters; Yemeni and other Arab gangsters; gay hustlers; violence-prone prostitutes; stolen prescription drugs dealers; Coke and/or Meth dealer; drunkards; scammers; stolen property merchants and other scumbags. You should hear what the Yemeni and Nepalese and Vietnamese and Chinese business people say about The Tenderloin. Are they wimps, too, Bradley?

Alright, you're entitled to have this opinion, but you're still wrong. Oh well, Brad, have it your way and keep on defying reality all you want.

All I know is that I have walked the Loin, first in the 1960s and 70s, regularly, and since 1981 only on occasion when I visit SF. I mind my own business and no one bother's me. It's undestandable that if one is mugged that one's attitude of that district would change. The point I was originally trying to make is that SF in general is way safer than parts of Chicago and NYC, that's all, nothing more, so just give it a rest.

Preach it is a compliment you are a speaking the TRUTH!!!

As a now transplanted native of your age, I can only echo your sentiments. While we are talking about the changes in the city, I would also add the fact that SF is no longer a working port. I can remember when the Embarcadero was a gritty working port, before it was transformed into a Barcelona-like waterfront. It looks nice to the eye, but something was lost in the transformation. The techies and arrogant hipster a-hole pod people turn me off, but change is inevitable. In Hitchcock's masterpiece , VERTIGO, one of the characters talks about the changing SF, and how it isn't the city it once was. This was circa 1958. It's very comforting in a way to be an old fart, and be glad that we lived there when we were younger, and to have had a chance to enjoy everything that is now missing.

The Marina. A neighborhood filled with people who seem like they are upset that they ended up in San Francisco. And it's been this way since I was a kid. I say we start a collection to help them relocate to suburban Dallas. You know...a nice place for Heterosexuals to raise children. Not that there is anything wrong with Heterosexuals...many of my close friends are.....

Hey guys, I create a Facebook group "Security in San Francisco / neighborhood" for discuss about the people's opinions about San Francisco's worst neighborhood!

I was born and raised in San Francisco....growing up the worst parts of the city was sixth street skid row.....Hayes Valley filled with drugs and hookers....the embarcadero filled with drunks and fleabag hotels...the tenderloin filled with dope and hookers.....Potrero hill filled with gangs and drugs and finally third street filled with bars drugs and gangs......that was the old great San Francisco.....Now days with all the tech money pouring into the city all the above neighborhoods are turning from scary to beautiful.....the only holdouts are the tenderloin and the very outskirts of third street.....otherwise San Francisco is turning into a jewel....some old timers hate this and long for the bad old days......Get over it...!!! Lol

The worst neighborhood is, hands down, Hunters Point. To say otherwise is to talk foolishness. The Tenderloin has a night life, with people going to bars and clubs. Hunters Point has no nightlife and is infested with gangs. As a native San Franciscan, I'll go anywhere in the city at night... except HP or anything east of 3rd Street.

I'm new to sanfrancisco and would love if someone can tell me how safe is 1045 mission street and 900 folsom st in terms of safety. Im looking to move into either of the places. would really be grateful if someone can throw some light on it.thank you

@CrispyCorner It really depends on where you currently live. Are you coming from the suburbs? If so, it will be a culture shock and a little scary. I used to think Mission Street was too dangerous, but after living there for a few years, my tolerance level changed (as I became more adept at distinguishing real from imaginary threats). In any case, the area you're describing is nicknamed SOMA (South Of Market) and parts of it can be rather seedy. Your building is close to the seedy part: 6th Street. Not Tenderloin seedy, but a close runner up, as there are a LOT of SROs (Single Room Only hotels) that house formerly homeless (many of whom unfortunately suffer from severe mental illnesses and drug addiction). Why does that matter? Well, you're more likely to get mugged. And, you're more likely to be woken up by screaming at all hours of the night (particularly if your apartment is facing the street and is on the lower floors). I don't want to scare you off though. If the building has security and you don't plan on wandering around late at night, you should be fine during daylight hours.

Well I couldn't agree more. It used to be Heaven. No traffic, 2 bedrooms were around $750.00mo. Lots of brilliant talented people (or people who thought they were ) where you could experiment and the city government was mostly on your side. Now , after a plague in the 80's , a Dot- Com (and Dot-Bomb) in the 90's and whatever the hell thei hideous TECH TAKEOVER is in the 20 -teens . Its a mess. And ive been here since 1966 off and on and am in deep love with the soul of the place. Like when your beloved lover becomes a homeless junkie and steals all your stuff , breaks your heart and you just have to move on....but where????? Austin ? Portland? Madison? LA? New Orleans? so we stay...........

PS. There is no such thing as a "safe neighborhood". It is ALL your own personal Karma.

the worst neighborhood is Noe Valley. smug, self-satisfied and horrifically overpriced. attempt to park and you might witness a 30 something young mother driving an AMG go postal because she can't get a spot near her yoga salon. i lived there in the late 70's during its final grasp
at cordiality.

When Carol Doda left the Condor Club SF was never the same. Ah, the good old days of North Beach when old school strip clubs sparkled with delight. I saw Carol performing her dance/strip acts at the Condor on a number of occasions back in the 70s. She was quite a singer as well! She was definately more than a perfect 36, more like a velupotious 44! Big Al's was a cool adult club as well. But the Condor was something really special.