NEWSPAPER ADVERTISING

Real Estate (newspaper) advertising is a waste of money

Make sure it is not your money. Many agents advertise to promote themselves, not your home. In the past 20 years, real estate advertising has increased as much as twenty times. In most areas, the number of sales being made today is the same as twenty years ago. Home sellers are often pressured to pay thousands of dollars for advertising. This is a needless expense because very few homes are ever sold because of advertising. The industry is addicted to advertising. There are dozens of advertising awards, yet client satisfaction awards are almost unknown.
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Without a doubt, that sounds like a 'Jenman' influenced comment.
Newspaper advertising, much like its counterpart of electronic marketing, plays an integral role in the necessary promotions of a home. It is NOT in a sellers interest to hide their property from easy view of buyers. This increases time on market and creating a lemon to the market place.
If a seller is correctly priced, they will find it through the resources of an agent, whether it be their database, internet or traditional media.
The industry IS addicted to advertising.. why? Simply because t works.
EG: Need a local trades person? Do you 'look them up' Whether they have advertised in the Yellow Pages, Online or in their Local Paper, you would go to the most convenience place to find them.. If you have a product - let people know will all means possible

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Yes these are the comments word for word of Mr Jenman, I myself was a jenman agent for 8 Years and like all Jenman agents past and present i was brain washed into believing what the system taught was right.... truth is it isn’t.
For example one of the 1st ever Auctions I did, the property sold for over $100,000 more than I thought it was worth if I had of listed that particular property for sale with an asking price the owners would have lost thousands.
I don’t think Mark is a Jenman agent anyway I think he probably follows bits of the system or Neil would tear strips of him for the goatee beard and ear ring!
But unlike the “Jenman Haters” I rate the man highly just not his systems anymore, he truly is a caring individual and he believes word for word what he preaches it’s just that my own personal real estate experiences have lead me to believe his system doesn’t do the best for the owner...or i would still be doing it. Advertising is a necessity most jenman agents I worked with in my 8 years with them where lazy so and so’s they take a lot longer to sell a property then other agents because they don’t advertise and sit in the office on their hands waiting for the phone to ring off the internet or sign board.
Lesson : Just because somone says they are a “Jenman” agent doesn’t mean they are ethical i worked with some crooks in my time that used Neil’s name to try and create a trustfull atmosphere and “Ethical” aura for themselves when all along they were really the opposite.

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Simple facts after our office did some detailed market research:

- 68% of people found the property on the internet
- 22% found it in the paper
- 10% from the signboard, signage and flyer drops

The fact is that the internet does inform a large amount of buyers of what is available on the market. However, if you want to find all of the buyers for the property you have to advertise in the newspaper.

I have had my 2 biggest buyers of this year both in 7 figures, come from the paper, and neither of them used the internet.

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You must be one of the rare agents that ask buyers how they found the property. Most agents are just happy to have someone turn up at their open thats not a relative or their office cleaner. Being a fanchise agent you know as well as i do that you have to get Vendor paid adverts for the paper so you can increase your data base and keep your profile up. I can not see the point in spending 1000$ plus per weekend to advertise a home is open for 30 minutes. If you can can justify that expense then that's great. We don't have to because the buyers come to us through our website, which I can guarantee you gets more traffic than any franchise office in Townsville. The serious buyers shop on the net and that's a fact. I look forward to a response from a local townsville agent. The last 7 digit sales i had came from internet enquiry. as do all our sales.

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Hi Mark,

Interestingly enough I understand your point as well, which is why we don't spend $1000 + per week to advertise the property in the paper. Large scale paper advertising doesn't have the impact that people believe it does; however, presence does. There are buyers who only look in the paper so it's important that you access those buyers where ever you can.

One of the things that I know my clients like is that we don't use it boost our personal profile (yes the office) but not me as an individual. No smiling photos of my face, just the office number.

So use the paper but make sure its advertising your property, not the agent. That it is getting people to buy your property, not sell with that person.

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HI Ron we use bits part of all sales techniques, we only use the bits that work and being one of the busiest offices in Townsville this is testiment to us doing it right for our vendors.

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Thats right. You have got it.

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Every area is different far north Queensland does not provide the same opportunities for print media that Sydney provides or any capital city for that matter.
Sydney is congested, we get 50+ groups to most open houses there are not as many residents in Townsville as there are in the area I service, and being an extremely well established area (Captain Cook Landed here) our population is split by young people and older people thus we have an enormous elderly audience that do not use computers i.e. Internet.
Many buyers attend our open houses with the local print media in hand with circles around the property’s they intend viewing, Stupid comments such as newspaper advertising doesn’t work or is a waste of money is simply an ignorant broad generalization, it may not work in country Queensland but he sure works in metropolitan Sydney.
Besides that fact almost any property we sell in my area is over a million dollars and a large portion over 2 million, successful well to do owners in my area with high powered jobs that own these beachside mansions, want to present their home in expert and exclusive light i.e. Professional photography, Floor Plans, Day and Night Shots, Large Print media advertising rented furniture etc...

If i attempted to use the methods you guys use in Townsville here where I work to sell property I would starve and be laughed out of town, and don’t forget I was a Jenman agent for 8 Years in another area......don’t think I haven’t tried the alternative it simply doesn’t work in Dolls Point

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Thanks for the well rounded discussion chaps.

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That's a great point that each market is diferent. Each of us are comic from very different markets Sydney Townsville and Brisbane and each has it's own particularities. What's important is that we get the best price for our seller in whatever way suits the market. At the moment it might be without paper or with paper advertising. All we can do is keep informed and let our sellers know the most effective medium.

Thanks for the time today guys it was great to discuss an important issuefrom three different perspectives

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Look forward to some more topics on auctions and misleading and deceptive conduct by agents. happens at lot up here.

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Sounds great Mark. It's a shame that there are a few agetns who are doing a disservice to our industry.

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Mark while I have enjoyed listening to your views although I don't necessarily agree with them, I believe that you are being very negative about our Industry, nowadays most people are trying to do the right thing. How about a thread on all the good things we do in our industry?

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Cheers Dan being negative and stating the truth are not the same thing. The good things about our industry are that people can sell their homes without huge advertising packages, but as i have said before horses for courses. What type of agency do you work with Dan? The good news is in our market, buyers are paying the right money for the property they want and that's what we do and we do it very well, as do many agencies around Townsville.

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Mark, I work for "Go Gecko", we work under a "capped commission" system. We do get VPA for all our listings. The way I look at it is, there is no right or wrong way to do real estate. Just because you don't think advertising packages work it doesn't mean we are ripping people off. Just because i charge people less commission it doesn't mean that you aren't allowed to charge full commission. I agree with "horses for courses"but i call it "Live and Let Live"".
There are more than one way to skin a cat. I respect your opinion and I think it is good we are discussing this but I much rather talk about something a bit more positive. :)
Cheers Mark.

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Steve, at the end of the day, money is not everything, and my incentive to strive for more for my vendors is personal pride and professional integrity. I have been involved with Go Gecko for almost 3 years now and I could give you a long list of people that are very very satisfied with my service and how much i have achieved for them. As far as the sign is concerned, how is it any different from putting an ugly (or for some good looking ) picture of the agent on the sign?

As far as i am concerned all systems are flawed, and nobody is perfect. I always try to say tolerance is the best way, unfortunately too many people think that their way is the only way.

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Dan,
great argument, esspecially the point you make about professional integrity.
Forget about what each of us is payed as salespeople it's in our blood to try and do the best of our ability each and every time we close a sale, I don't know about the rest of you but when I tell an owner to accept an offer it's because in my heart of hearts I think it's the best they will do, I can't believe that a single one of us would sell a property just for the sake of it if we think we can get more for the owner.
I don't know about you guys but I ussually don't check how much I've charged them until the propertys exchanged and I've worked to the best of my ability.

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I agree Dan, I cant remember the last time i even looked at one of my payslips. Most of us sell because we enjoy the business we have chosen, i thoroughly enjoy coming to work everyday, 7 days a week. Discount agents are dissapointing and I am sure they do their best for owners, the ones i have seen operate in Townsville, don't leave a lot to be desired, I have heard it said, from them "we don't care what we get for a house, we just want it sold so we can get paid". Most discount agents up here, are not very professional and are shocking negotiators. But I know at the end of the day, Vendors want successful agents to sell their homes, how would you feel if you saw your agent or doctor turn up to see you with a beatup old car, jeans and thongs. That is not a confident look, and successfull agents sell more homes. That is a fact. This might sound over the top. Sellers want agents that sell homes and sell for a higher price that ones that say it not about the money. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. is it not?

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Mark,

There is a discount Jenman agent in Melbourne that Neil endorses personally. On there website they state that “The charging of a commission according to the value of a vendor's property is unethical and unfair. Fees must be based on service, not property value.”
This agent charges a “Flat Fee” of $4,400 there website is www.lawyersrealestate.com.au.

Neil has been endorsing them on twitter, and his own website, so your fellow jenman agents are practicing a system you have yourself condemned.

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Adam, I have never endorsed Jenman, and i certainly hold discounting agents with distain, any agent that cannot defend a full fee will do a pretty lousy job at negotiating the price up on a home. We take a little bit of all forms of selling and combine them into a system that works for us and i might say works very well for all our happy vendors that we have sold for. We are a full fee for full service agency and would have it no other way.

cheers

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Mark, i think that to make generalisations is never fair or logical. What makes you think that everyone who does not charge full commission drives a beat up car or wears thongs to a listing presentation? To me money is not the greatest motivator there is and I have not ruled out throwing my hand at full commission in the future. What I am trying to say, is this. Tolerance. Live and let live. We can be different, we can work differently, we can operate under a different system, without having to throw dirt or belittle each other. How can you have disdain for me if you haven't met me?

Adam I also believe that the great majority of agents do the right thing for their clients, and I would like to concentrate on those things that are positive about our industry. We cop enough unfair stories from Today Tonight or ACA as it is, without having to throw dirt at each other as well. Thanks for your comment.

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Mark,

Are you embarassed you follow the Jenman system? you commented " I have never endorsed Jenman".
As the Sales Manager ,your website offers a link "The lying Game by Neil Jenman" is this not an endorsment?

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Cheers Dan. All full com agents would agree that the discount agents of this industry, have done nothing but harm, since they evloved a few years ago, and the only reason THOSE TYPES of agencies have come about was because, the agents, were light weights in the industry and the only point of difference they had was a reduced commission, as someone else said on here, "More than not the cheapest agent can be the most expensive in the end...." Discount agents work on volume not quality of service and price, as they have to get as many away a month so they can get a feed. The first sale for the month goes to the office in many instances, you would certainly not want to be the first sale for the month. I have heard of discount agents giving discounts on behalf of the owners, when the owners know nothing of it. How many time have you heard,the buyer say "What will the owner take?" "offer them 30 k under the asking price", the agent says. Thats not only unethical, its a pathetic agent practice that goes on and not just with dicount agents. Stop being a victim and toughen up.

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Mark, I am not a victim mate, the bottom line is this, you do not know how I do business and making generalisations wether other agents agree with you or not is just not right, its silly. Have you heard me make wild comments about Jenman agents? As you have yourself pointed out, there are lots of practices that are not right on your side of the fence too. Stop being so negative and throwing dirt at others to make yourself look better.

I am perfectly aware that the only type of agent that is disliked more than a Jenman one is someone like myself that doesn't work for full commission. At the end of the day we all do what we think is best, I am not going to convince you that the Jenman system is a waste of time and shoes, and you are not going to convince me on how much i should charge, so why don't you get over it and we can discuss something a bit more constructive.
We are all different mate, get over it. There are no cookie cutters out there.

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Wow, when did this turn into a forum for bashing other agents. Guys, remember that the public reads this forum as well and all that is happening is that agents are perpetuating the image that the public has of agents, which gives low fee, cost cutting or whatever else you want to call them, agents into the market, because the public sees agents bickering and thinks, great, they're going to do a bad job anyway lets pay them as little as possible.

We have a job, actually a requirement, to do the best job for our vendors and look after them. As a young agent all I see is more mature and experienced agents bickering and talking behind people's backs, not doing what's right. Be honest, be open and upfront and lets get our name out of the dirt. I don't agree with a large amount of what the Jenman system perpetrates; however, he does have public support and is always given the positive light on programs such as ACA. Maybe just maybe there is something that can be taken out of that for all of us to think about?

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spot on Ben.

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all i said was that newspaper advertising was a waste of money. I should have qualified that by adding" In Townsville. "

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Mark,

You want to throw mud at others but as soon as i caught you out lying you ignore me?

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Ben these topics turn like this when people show their lack of tolerance for anyone or anything that is different than themselves.

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Spot on Dan

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please elaborate Adam. on the lying part

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you commented " I have never endorsed Jenman".
As the Sales Manager ,your website offers a link "The lying Game by Neil Jenman" is this not an endorsment?

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also are you saying you have never told a potential client you follow the Jenman System?

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When i see vendors stitched up for VPA on a weekly basis for no result. that is wrong and unethical.

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whats that got to do with explaining your mistruth?

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We follow parts of different sales methods. jenman has some good points as well as the franchise methods. Have a look at our funny stuff re auctions. we are not Jenman accredited.

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I agree, but if you go back through the posts here each of us are guilty of doing it. Evary market is different as is each person. We all find our own way which works for us and the people we are servicing, but we need to remember that perception is reality, if this is what the public is seeing then this is the reality which we, as agents, are perpetuating.

QUick question for Adam, do you believe that parts the Jenman system are relevent and important in today's market or are they all 'flawed'?

In a more general question to the group and people as a whole who may read this, how do people chose their agent? What is the most important aspect of gaining a listing?

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Most Jenman agents are not Jenman Approved but that doesn’t stop you from telling everyone in earshot that you follow the Jenman System does it?
Agents like you like to use Neil’s good name to espouse that they are like him.
As for VPA my clients demand it i do not “Sell” VPA.

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The most important part of "gaining a listing" as you put it, would be to prove to the vendor that you are trustworthy and capable of selling and that you have done so lots of times in the past in their immediate area.
This is a PEOPLE business, if you gain their trust you can use whichever system you desire and they will still trust you and list with you.
I'm sure you all heard this before but "T.A.P."is pretty much what gets you a listing.
TRUST
ABILITY
PERFORMANCE
cheers

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Ben,

Neil Jenman was my mentor for 10 years of my Real Estate life.
He is a man of integrity and I do think that his systems in part are Brilliant.
So I moved to another area when i was married and there are not Jenman agency’s where I work now the alternative? Get out of real estate or try the other way, so i tried the other way for the 1st time in my life Auctions, open house’s, VPA etc...
Turns out last year i made the most money I have ever made in my career and i witnessed MANY i repeat MANY sales by Auction that had i priced them for private treaty sale the owners would have lost HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
Now someone like mark may say “How could you be out on a house price by over 1 hundred thousand” well mark sells cheap modest homes and i sell million dollar beach mansions to put this in perspective, what’s the difference to a buyer with a 6 figure salary that can afford these homes if they pay 1.9 Million dollars or 2.2 Million dollars?
When the market turns for the better over this way an experienced agent can easly be out on price by 2 or 3 Hundred thousand dollars.
I DO NOT do Auctions to promote myself as mark would have you believe, I do Auctions because they realize the best possible price for a property.

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Dan and Adam,

Thanks for those points and I'm happy we could turn this into a more positive discussion.

Adam, must agree with you. I have sold properties at Auction and recieved more then market value for them. Best example I have was the same house, same builder on the market 3 blocks apart. The other house was on the market with a price, while my vendors were auctioning their property. We were able to get $30,000 more for their property on auction day. Might not seem much but for properties around the $500,000 mark, that is a fair amount.

And Dan couldn't agree more, this is a trust business. If they know and trust you they will list with you. Lead on from that questionthen is what is the best way to get the trust built?

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have a look at the start of this is says NEWSPAPER ADVERTISING. in Townsville Queensland. not advertising in Sans Souci New South Wales. By the way Adam were you a jenman agent for 8 or ten years? which was it.

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****** MarkTPC says:1 hour ago ****** .all I said was that newspaper advertising was a waste of money. I should have qualified that by adding"
In Townsville. "
Mark don’t take credit for the website adding "In Townsville" it adds that because you are from Townsville your comments that newspaper advertising doesn’t work were a broad generalization and they weren’t even your comments they were Neil’s.
You got on here to try and “Tip the wagon” and go against the mainstream but if you are going to do that you should be original.

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As for the 8 or 10 ,years it was 10.
Time flys when yourhaving fun!

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What's interesting in the market where I am is that the most sucessful agents are not using paper advertising to sell their properties. However, time on market is blowing out and people are starting to realise that it is an important part of selling their property. Therefore, the agents who have been around for a while are struggling now to sell the properties in a short period of time because they aren't advertising the property.

Each market is different but the principal's of marketing are still the same.

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In Townsville most agents are struggling to sell at the moment, all the newspaper advertising in the world will not change the fact a home is over priced and that is why they are not selling. We have been selling a lot, with no adverts in the paper, we have run 2 adds in the past weeks for clients at their insistance still had lookers turn up but the only genuine enquiry came from the net. Believe me if newspaper advertsing here sold us more homes we would be doing it. I used to do when we were a Franchise agency and from my records 95% of those homes that sold were from internet enquiry. It still comes down to pricing at the end of the day.

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Kenneth, I think Adam sounds like a great agent, despite the fact that i don't know him because he is from interstate. Just because someone disagrees with somebody else's opinion it doesn't mean that they are argumentative. We are all different and each and every one of us has the right to his/her own opinion. There's no need to get personal just because we disagree. Cheers.

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Hi guys,

I'll remind you, please no personals attacks or anything that is in violation of our terms of service. Otherwise, we will have to shut the thread down. It would be a waste of such a good thread to close it down.

AJ

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