The death of LES

The gentrification of the neighborhood I suppose.. I am sure my tailor ( Felix Tailors)on Rivington Street will soon be booted out too.. he too has been complaining of rising rents. The LES has such a unique ambiance it will be true tragedy if it is soon transformed into a neighborhood with high rise, luxury condominium buildings. However I can't help but ask do rising rents mean NYC's economy is bouncing back?

How depressing! I love the Lower East Side and hate the idea of it becoming even more Williamsburgified than it already is.

Someone predicted that by the year 2015, this city will be vacant, because no one will be able to afford this place. On the other hand, someone also said that only the very rich will live and everyone else will move out. Anyone heard of this or have their opinions?

@hhusted I don't think that prediction is going to come true.. NYC is alive and thriving expensive or not...

@ajadedidealist LES was Williamsburg before everyone moved to Williamsburg!

@BroadwayBk so true...

@Uptowngirl: Well, everyday I see people moving out of NYC. So you never can tell.

The very rich wouldn't have anyone to open their doors or drive their cars if they were the only ones left in the city.

@BroadwayBK They can just hire the middle class to do that for them, since it's the middle class who will be increasingly jobless.

@Uraniumfish So it's either be a cabbie/dishwasher or find a new place to live?!

@BroadwayBK sigh so true..

It's probably true that people move out of the city every day. But there are also those that move to the city each day.

@NeverSleeps Youre spot one, it would be worthwhile finding some stats on that migration process.

@uptowngirl I couldn't find much, just this, which is a bit dated, but interesting: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/19/nyregion/19migrate.html

also some migration notes from the unreliable NY Post as related to the pathetic NYC dating scene: http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/that_it_leaving_new_york_8Q9xsv0s3oRuE4F2hlKNZM

@NeverSleeps thanks they are both insightful articles! especially the one about dating in NYC ..my single girlfriends are not going to be too happy.

I always say exactly what that article said about dating in New York: men, in general here, don't ever feel like they have to grow up and they are always looking to trade up. Most of my friends are perpetually single here. Not pretty.

@JenMac Right? We of these forums could've written that article...

NeverSleeps: I only see one or two moving vans in my daily journeys around Manhattan. I was told by a neighbor, who is also an actor, that those who do move here, do it for the acting mainly. Why else come to a city that offers very little these days. This city is not as it once was. Back in the '70s and early '80s it was a bustling city full of life. But now, the city is hanging on to a thin thread. Sad situation.

Well, people still come here to do music, art, banking, real estate, chef'ing. There's still a lot of other reasons to come here.

@JenMac that is true, hhusted you have a very cynical view of NYC .. I am not saying its the best place in the world but by no means is it a terrible place either..

@Uptowngirl: My view is based on observation, what I'm told by others, and what I read. I don't make up anything.

hhusted: that's what all of our view is based upon, and yet we have such a different view. How does that work?

@JenMac: Just like other things. One person can see the glass half full while another one can see the glass half empty. One person can see a lot in a tree, while one person can only see the branch. It is about perception. I was brought up with the belief that NYC people were obnoxious, arrogant people. This was ingrained in me from childhood. So obviously, that is what I expect NYC to be and that is what I see it to be. It has a lot to do with your belief system and perception.

Isn't it obnoxious and arrogant not to be able to see outside of what was ingrained in you during childhood?

@BroadwayBk true

This quote from the dating article made me laugh:“I don’t know if they become crappy when they meet me or they were crappy before, but there is definitely crappiness,”

Maybe the reasons people move here has a lot to do with the crappiness of the dating scene - I've met quite a lot of young men who think they're hot shots, or aspire to be hot shots in their careers, and serial dating is part of the lifestyle and image they want to cultivate once they come to New York from middle-of-nowhere, Idaho.

@uraniumfish: here here! A lot of people are way too big for their britches. And, I laughed at that quote too . . . I think because I've said almost the same thing but just not as well.

So...dating isn't awful everywhere then?

@BroadwayBK I want to believe that it isn't. I bet the guys who stay in middle-of-nowhere, Idaho settle down with a nice girl and forego the crappiness altogether.

I've been in NYC relationships that haven't ended in the heart-wrenching despairs of infidelity; more like, hey, we tried but it didn't work out. There are guys who are jerks in every city, and no doubt in this one too, but NYC has some sweet, highly dateable guys as well.

@NeverSleeps It's good to get your perspective, usually women in NYC seem so disappointed with the men.

@uptowngirl, sadly, I'm one of them . . .

@uptowngirl You found a good guy, right?

I've had my share of disappointing moments, but I do have friends who have been in solid relationships for years. So I know it's possible - even here - and I guess I just have to wait it out. They say not to go looking for love, but just to enjoy life and it'll come along.

BroadwayBK: You said the following:

"Isn't it obnoxious and arrogant not to be able to see outside of what was ingrained in you during childhood?"

My answer, based on my years of training as a therapist, is no. If this was the case, every person walking the plant would be arrogant or obnoxious. And that is not the case. There are many people I know personally, who suffer from low self-esteem.

These people who had low self-esteem felt inferior on the inside. So apparently, the idea of them being good for nothing was ingrained in them from childhood. They did not show any arrogance at all.

A number of people (I'm not saying everyone people), come here from other parts of the country and believe that now they are in the self-proclaimed "Greatest City in the World," they think they are now hot shit and their butts don't stink. I ran into someone a few weeks ago, who acted like this, and my girlfriend did to.

I asked the guy where he came from. He told me Kansas. I asked why he moved here. He told me his best friend moved here and encouraged him to come so they could be close. I asked him if he acted arrogant when in Kansas. He told me he wasn't aware of it. So I said, why are you acting that way now you're here. He said because he is trying to fit in and do what he's seen other New Yorkers do. In other words, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. So he saw many people around him act arrogant, so he thought that was common to do. I told him to be himself and not act like others, if he didn't want to isolate himself quick.

I wonder which city is worse when it comes to arrogance, NYC or Boston. They have attitudes there as well.

@hhusted So then you're saying you see New York as being filled with horrible humans because you have low self esteem?

@NeverSleeps Yes he's a good egg most of the time:)

@BroadwayBk I truly believe in that ..live your life, be happy, be open to new things and experiences and love will come along.. I tell all my single girlfriends that ...

@BroadwayBK: No. You miss my point. Having low self-esteem means you think little of yourself. I think very highly of myself. It is just that I was always told by my peers and friends that NYC had, not necessarily bad or horrible people as you describe, but people who thought more of themselves than what was necessary to. They acted arrogant, like they were better than others. That is what I mean. When I moved to NYC, that is exactly what I ran across, which validated my belief system. I have met people and made friends with some New Yorkers who were nice as can be. Not all New Yorkers are bad seed, or arrogant people. But many of them are.

@Uptowngirl: I do try to stay happy and keep an open mind. But at the same time, there are just certain beliefs and practices I will not accept no matter what.

@hhusted I think we have all run into pompous, arrogant New Yorkers at sometime believe me the UES is filled with them but there are loads of other genuinely nice folk out there so I don't let the arrogant ones affect me much. I just love the city for what it offers, believe me the kind of freedoms you enjoy here you can't in many parts of the world where free speech, the press, the internet are all restrained or heavily censored. NYC has its ills like any other city but it also has a kind of spirit which is hard to find elsewhere( in other parts of the world not necessarily another US city).

hhusted: While I don't really follow your line of argument, I think what you're saying is that if you encounter something that is in line with the prejudices that you were raised to believe, then those prejudices must be true? So, one blonde says something stupid, one asian gets into a car accident, one Jewish person haggles a price . . . and they must all be exactly what we were told.

@JenMac: In other words, whatever we believe in is what we attract. It is the Law of Attraction at work. I was told that New Yorkers are arrogant people. When I came to New York, and realized those I met were arrogant, that solidified my belief system. I attracted arrogant people because that is what I had in my subconscious mind. I attracted arrogant people because that is the rule that was programmed into my subconscious mind when I was young. Therefore, I expected people here to be that way.

However, when I met some really nice people, that was a shock to me, based on my previous programming. So what happened, I was basically reprogrammed in a way to accept the fact NYC has a mixed bag of people and to look for those who are nice and kind, and ignore the arrogant ones, just as Uptowngirl does.

That seems to work well for me. I actually wrote a book on the subconscious mind and how it works. It is selling very well.

You mean like quantum physics and the subconscious mind?

?!?!?

@uptowngirl Well, it's good to know that I'm not the only one who believes she's encountered a few good eggs!

@NeverSleeps Good for you!

@neversleeps and uptown: I haven't met one good egg here. That's so sad to me. I'm starting to think it's me. The whole time I lived in LA, I never really had any buttbag problems. Now, I don't even like the dudes my friends date.

@JenMac sorry to hear that..hope things change soon.

@JenMac If I've met a good egg then I wasn't attracted to him and therefore he slipped away. But I do have friends who have been in relationships with guys - good eggs, so to speak - for years. And seeing as how they coupled up in the city, it gives me at least a little faith.

@Everybody I have at least three guy friends I can name off the top of my head who are not only good eggs but also good looking men all around, but they are taken and have been taken for at least a decade in all three cases. Apparently the strategy is you grab the good eggs while they're young and available, otherwise it's a tough landscape.

Or just wait for the good eggs to divorce.

@BroadwayBK that's how I landed my good egg.. didnt know him when he was married though..

@uptowngirl Oooooh, you're like Carrie and Mr. Big! Has being married to a divorcé had its weird moments? I dated one, and while we were dating his ex was nothing but a big pain. Of course later on I crossed over to her side of the trenches.

@everyone I think dating is always going to be a tough landscape for those who are attractive, intelligent and moral and looking for the same; it narrows the playing field.

@BroadwayBK it sure has its weird moments.. the ex is a taboo subject, to be fair to him he never really bad mouths her but I am intensely curious all the same and try and find out as much as I can apart of course from what he has told me.

I suppose the ex always is a taboo subject. What do you think makes you so curious? I think I should have been MORE curious about my ex's ex, maybe I would've run for the hills a lot sooner.

@BroadwayBk I know what caused the marriage to end but even then I have a weird curiosity to know about their life together. He's very tight lipped but other family members have told me stuff about her and I know she was quite a stunner because I snooped around and found some old photos.:)..anyway I don't think about it much nowadays.

@Everyone Just in time for Valentine's Day -the Village Voice's take on what ails Single ladies in NYC-worth reading

http://www.villagevoice.com/2011-02-09/news/dear-single-women-of-nyc-it-s-not-them-it-s-you/

@uptowngirl Good. I'm not that fond of complaining about bad men or a bad dating scene. Generally I think it's my own fault if I'm too weak to hang around with losers. Which is why I have good-egg male friends. They may be taken, but they are fantastic men and those are the kinds I want to have around.

Also @uptowngirl My ex's ex was this formidable, successful woman who scared the living daylights out of me. I had to take it as a compliment that he left her for me.

@JenMac: You said the following: You mean like quantum physics and the subconscious mind?

Yes, something like that. The movie "The Secret" talks a lot about the subconscious mind. But quantum physics does a good job talking about the subconscious mind and how it works. You see, our conscious mind only picks up stimulus from our sensory organs and processes it, then it stores it in the subconscious mind for permanent storage. The conscious mind then sends a request to the subconscious mind when it wants to recall something.

@uptowngirl Loved that VV feature, thanks for posting it!

"But quantum physics does a good job talking about the subconscious mind and how it works." I am seriously wondering about the contents of your mind if you believe this is what quantum physics does. And yes, I went to an actual, accredited university, and yes, took an actual accredited class on physics and quantum mechanics.

@uraniumfish: seeing as you took quantum mechanics in school, do you believe that creative visualization works? I'm so fascinated by this whole process.

@NeverSleeps here's the follow up to that article .. really interesting the reaction from the men.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/02/what_you_had_to.php?page=2

@uptowngirl Whoa! Thought I had problems... pretty funny read, but I am a little disturbed by the common theme of disgust at a woman's having any sexual agency. Obviously it's not kosher to sleep with anyone besides the dude you will one day marry even in this modern of eras.

@uptowngirl Those dudes' responses were awful! No wonder no one can find a man in this city!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@BroadwayBK exacctly

Woah, there are some angry people in this city.

Hunh?! I don't think we're talking about the same thing here. This is quantum mechanics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics

@uptowngirl Some very sad men out there, wow.

@uraniumfish these sad NY men can really spread their poison ...believe me I speak from experience.

Why is it I suspect these very sad men are also the ones on dating websites?

@Uraniumfish MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY. But my thoughts were based on experience! From now on I am a sworn member of the meet-guys-in-person-or-not-at-all club. Saves a lot of time that way, in any case.

@Everyone here's another analysis this time from the Wall Street Journal and it refers to all American men in their 20s -30s not only NYC men
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704409004576146321725889448.html?mod=WSJ_hp_us_mostpop_rea

Honestly I am growing tired with the women's lib movement = lazy immature culture of men trend pieces. The Village Voice feature above was much needed.

@uraniumfish: I know what quantum physics is. A lot of people believe that creative visualization works because of quantum physics. I was just curious about your opinion seeing as you studied it (quantum mechanics).

@JenMac Then I guess I don't understand what is meant by creative visualization. The class was rather math-heavy and though I got the math okay I'm still not sure I can wrap my head around how the math relates to actual phenomena. Then again I'm no physicist.

Can somebody explain the Law of Attraction to me? I had to write articles about it once for a quick n'easy SEO job and I still don't understand what on earth it's all about? Can't say I'm...convinced.

@ajadedidealist That sounds like a job for hhusted, but sadly I don't think he'll be returning to tell you. I think the basic premise is that if you focus on the positive and picture what you want as already being yours, then it's going to happen. That's the idea behind bestselling books such as The Secret, whose author went on record to say that everything that happens in anyone's life is attracted by the individual, including the brutal murder of a young girl which had been in the news at the time: http://flavorwire.com/143602/oprahs-top-literary-scandals

@BroadwayBK Wow...some people. You would think the author of a bestselling book would have a better PR skill set.

@BroadwayBK Sanely and coherently explained, as always.